Isabella Liu is determined to create learning experiences that are meaningful and authentic for students. In this interview, read how she is incorporating emerging technologies into science education and helping other educators to do the same. As well, Isabella shares how her personal values show up in her work, what excites her about the future, and more!
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You come from a diverse background, having been born in India, and working across both Canada and US in places like Silicon Valley. How have these life experiences helped shape the person you are today?
India is very diverse in itself. I spent a good 22 years of my life in India, mostly in my hometown, a primarily conservative city. Even then I was exposed to different languages, different religions, different ways of living and cultures. I think having a strong support system of people and resources around me who understood the importance of dreams and growth, helped me broaden my scope of thinking and develop an outward approach.
But yes, travelling from India to the US was definitely a culture shock. Who wouldn’t want to experience that though? I did my research on how’s and what’s of people, the education system, and the prevalent beliefs in the States before travelling. That said, experiencing the culture first hand was different. It definitely grew my breadth of perspectives about the world, and helped me value travelling and experiencing different cultures.
Having come from a patriarchal society and now working in a male dominated field, how do you think having so much male influence in your life helped or hindered your sense of self?
Being raised in a patriarchal society came with some benefits. Although I may have lost on opportunities such as playing tennis (there was only one sports club near my place and its management didn’t have a good reputation), or free reign over my free time because I was asked to come home on time and not stay out late with friends (on-time meant soon after college or before sunset), I did gain some things.
I built few but strong friendships. I developed an intuitive ability to sense threat and learned to find safe environments. I learned how to entertain myself with books (non-academic, of course), and even developed a sense of inner rebel which helped in building my resilience.
I also had access to computer and internet (not every one did), which allowed me to look at the world, not just around me but miles away. I think this access is perhaps one of the reasons you will find comparatively more percentage of women in STEM fields in India. In fact, when I joined university in North Dakota, I was definitely shocked to see that out of 35 students in my Computer Science graduate program, only 4 of them were women. None of those women were American. And this reality was also reflected in the job market.
Also, I have had the privilege of being mentored by wonderful human beings, mainly men. When I look back to particular times in my career though, male colleagues have been willing to include me in discussions or sporting activities only when I have explicitly shown curiosity and interest in it. I feel this has contributed to my consciousness levels both in positive and negative ways.
What are some of the ways in which you have observed harmful self-talk/self-belief in women (either yourself or women you know)?
I think that we tend to criticize ourselves a lot and also not own our successes enough. I think being self critical is good because it also means that you are holding yourself up to high standards (recently gained this awareness). But, it is also important to understand that you do what you do because of the experiences that you have had so far.
One thing I strongly believe in is that my journey and my experiences are unique. I do tend to fall into the trap of comparisons now and then, but I have built a way to address it and come out of it. I think there is value in seeing failures as lessons learned. But it is important to move on.
I am still learning how to own my successes enough. But as I said, it is a journey.
What are some of the ways you think we can overcome this harmful self-talk/self-belief?
Brené Brown says: “Talk to yourself as if you would talk to someone you love”. Try answering this question: if you care for someone, and they are in the same spot as you, what would you say to them at that particular moment? Say that to yourself.
What is the importance of self-awareness, particularly for women, in the professional space?
Ah, you see new opportunities and build the courage to go after them. Own your success, learn to make it vocal. Not suggesting to boast about it. But be aware enough about it to speak it. Ask for help and coaching in your workplace or outside of it.
What are some of the problematic norms you’ve observed in the tech space, and how have you gone about challenging them?
Specific to my field of work where you engineer a product, there are primarily two phases to the process: the critical thinking around solution building, and the implementation / coding phase. Since there are technical skills involved, it’s important for people to be skilled to a certain level. But as I have observed, there is also a culture that demands and supports very opinionated people, with no or little opportunity given to those who are not, or even to listening to all factors from other team members. This leads to uninformed or fast decisions around product building. This also drives low confidence levels of other team members who voiced their points or who ask for collective feedback.
I think it is important to be focused on the best solution to the problem. Being highly opinionated is good, but it’s only useful and effective when you back it up with reasoning and listening to the opinions and expertise of others. Diversity in opinions gives way to a resilient solution to the problem in hand.
As you continue through your journey of self-awareness, who are some of the women you look to for inspiration (and why)?
Indra Nooyi - A brilliant woman with high EQ, who climbed the corporate ladder for the top position at Pepsico. She inspires me because of the leadership insights she has given in her interviews: focus on what she could be the best at, focus on leadership quality of EQ over IQ, focus on closely working with direct reportees to make sure they are happy and successful in their work, focus on building workplaces with daycare facilities. In short, because she is a visionary changing the product’s brand to move beyond being being just a soda drink.
Abhilasha Bhatia, 'Abhi', is a Software Engineer at Finaeo, a growing Canadian startup in the insurance technology space. She has 5+ yrs experience working in the technology industry in Canada and US - Toronto, Silicon Valley, Tampa. Prior to that, she has 6 yrs of educational experience pursuing courses in Computer Science and Engineering. Abhi wants to use technology to engineer solutions for moonshot ideas that would take humanity to the next level, currently in the insurance industry with Finaeo.
Abhi grew up in India, in the city of Kanpur, in a family of 12 which included parents, grandparents, sibling, cousins, uncles and aunts. The perks of growing up in a big family were having a playful childhood with sibling and cousins and listening to anecdotes from grandparents. The family always encouraged and supported kids for higher education and picking up fields that would help in critical thinking and reasoning. Abhi feels this has been a crucial element in her upbringing that has helped her see different avenues that life can bring and explore awareness.
Abhi believes that it is important to educate young women about their rights, the importance of self-awareness, changing a mindset from feeling victimized to challenging norms and believing in themselves and always staying curious. She has been exploring leadership through people and books. She is very excited and looking forward to interacting with amazing women attending YWiB networking event!"
What made you want to participate in this panel discussion?
I was moved to participate in this panel because it is essential that we get more women in STEM fields. Women think differently than men so we have a great deal to add to the conversation. However, working in a STEM field is not for the faint of heart. There are many reasons why it is more challenging to be female. Indeed, many studies have shown that women who graduate engineering leave the profession within 5 to 7 years, citing lack of acceptance, opportunity, respect, etc. I’d like women considering STEM fields to be aware of this.
What are some things you do outside of work to help you develop personally and professionally?
Well, I am naturally a jock so keeping up with sports was easy for me, but almost essential in STEM fields. I took golf lessons early in my career and golf about as well as the average men in my field. I also play hockey (which I have done all my life) so organized company hockey clubs as well as client hockey challenges, which again helped me to be one of the “guys”. This won’t be as important for younger women, but a lot of work gets done on the golf course. Long-term, I have many friendships in my field, mostly with men (necessarily). I have intentionally reached out to other senior women for a support network, but in my cohort, we were very few. I do an awful lot of volunteering. I maintain a balanced life, which is important in any career.
What has been the biggest learning curve in your career?
As I progressed in my career, I realized that being a woman in charge of men was always going to be problematic for some men. When I reached the “pinnacle” of my career (City Engineer for Kitchener), it became obvious that being female was a real detriment to succeeding. Also, on numerous occasions I went to HR with concerns over how I was being treated. It never worked out well. Also, how to deflect male advances without making a scene. Hopefully, in this day and age, that is changing. Now that I run my own company, I don’t (much) have to deal with these things.
When you think about your journey thus far, what would you say was the one trait that helped you get you to where you are today?
One trait that has worked for me was that I am naturally assertive. However, a woman who is assertive is considered “bossy” or “bitchy” as opposed to a natural leader, as a man would be perceived. I was told as much by very senior management in one of my senior roles. Not being assertive will probably result in not getting those promotions, but it’s a two-edged sword. But, regardless of anything else, always be kind to everyone around you, from the cleaners to the admin staff. That is the true test of character.
What advice would you give to other women working in STEM?
Do it! Just be prepared, form a network of support, ask for help, work hard, and you’ll get there… Make sure you marry someone who believes in true equality (e.g. emotional energy of running a household and raising kids) 😊
Who do you look up to, and why?
Catherine Fife, MPP for Waterloo; my best friend (not in STEM) who is a beautiful soul, people who are actively involved in community, my sister-in-law.
Barbara A. Robinson, M.A.Sc., P.Eng., established Norton Engineering Inc. in 2015 following a successful 25-year private sector career and highlighted by two years as City Engineer for Kitchener. Norton initiated the ongoing “Addressing Unacceptable Inflow and Infiltration (I/I) in New Subdivisions”, which is currently gaining national attention; she has given dozens of presentations on the topic. She functions as senior QA/QC on Halton Region’s Downspout Disconnection projects and the Fort Erie Pollution Control Plan. She has provided ongoing wastewater engineering services for the Township of Woolwich since 2001. Norton was works regularly with the Institute for Catastrophic Loss Reduction (ICLR) to undertake various projects, including a long-term project to calculate the “Societal Costs of I/I” and “Engineering Data and Flood Risk”. Barbara is currently Chairwoman of the CSA committee to develop a new national Basement Flood Protection Guideline (expected to evolve into a Standard), which was just posted for public review. She sits on the WEAO Collections Systems Committee, ICLR Municipal Advisory Committee, and advises on the Durham Climate Resistance Standard for New Houses and the new BC Housing Standard. She also works for NRC and SCC.
Barbara works as a paid infrastructure columnist with CBC Radio, speaking on a wide range of infrastructure and engineering issues such as sewers, flooding, potholes & water towers. The column is regularly delivered on CBC Radio’s morning shows across Ontario.
What made you want to participate in this panel discussion?
I have found myself at the center of "Women in STEM" topic for over a decade now. I started observing the disparity in gender while I was pursuing my Bachelor's in Technology degree. It was annoying to get attention for being a woman in tech rather than being a student willing to gain knowledge and grow. This only became more stark when I pursued higher studies and worked alongside, mostly male, colleagues. I wonder why gender difference is even a thing when everyone is working towards the same goal. But unfortunately it is at the workplaces. I want to participate in the panel to discuss and throw light on some of the challenges that I have faced, measures I have taken to overcome them, and the few that I am still fighting off. I also want to participate on this platform to send out a message to young girls to not be afraid of technology careers, and to the dominant forces in tech to step out of the way.
What are some things you do outside of work to help you develop personally and professionally?
I am a science geek. I like reading science and technology articles, mainly around astronomical sciences and, in this past year, analytics and data science. For centering my chi, I resort to ways to let my artistic expression flow in the form painting and dancing. It is very important for me to see life through different perspectives, and therefore enjoy listening to panel discussions and podcasts.
What has been the biggest learning curve in your career?
I think working with startups has been biggest learning curve for me thus far. One hustles, develops, learns on a daily basis. You join the dots together piece by piece, block by block. There is an open environment of ideas flowing, there is a culture you are contributing to strongly. Another point I would like to add is, experiencing different ethnic cultures and work environments has also contributed significantly to my growth.
When you think about your journey thus far, what would you say was the one trait that helped you get you to where you are today?
I believe in not quitting. And you can only be confident about it if you are open to learning and open to changes. All this while, even today, I keep my mind open to learning new things, be it more efficient ways of approaching a problem, to improving ways I can be more efficient ways, to optimizing my contributions.
What advice would you give to other women working in STEM?
Do not give up. It is a fact that the number of women who actually pick STEM as their careers, do not continue thereon for long, for a variety of reasons. I would like to ask them to remind themselves of the reasons they chose to be in a scientific field and what's holding them off now.
Who do you look up to, and why?
There have been many people part of my journey that I look up to. My family has all along been a guiding light for the path I have chosen. My friends to challenge me to a competition. My colleagues and mentors at workplace, some of whom have challenged my beliefs and some of whom have helped me with ways to let my voice heard in a crowd.
Some public figures whose biographies, writings, and speeches I have thoroughly enjoyed are Dr. Kalpana Chawla (an astronaut), Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam (a scientist, and former President of India), Jocelyn Goldfein, and Steve Jobs.
Abhilasha Bhatia is a software engineer at Finaeo Inc. Her forte is backend development. From time to time she delves into frontend and dev-op projects that give control of the full development stack. She is a self-proclaimed science geek and loves to read articles on scientific innovation, especially about astronomical sciences.
Abhilasha’s encounters with technology started of as a kid in India playing with handheld game consoles. The very first building blocks were learning the “turtle graphics” in 3rd grade, using the Logo programming language. Followed by the widely discussed Y2K bug which gave her a realization of how technology is converging the world. Ever so pumped up with it, she took off to pursue an undergraduate in Computer Science from a state university in India and then decided to move on to pursuing higher studies in the United States. These were the years she faced the stark truth about the number of women opting for technology as their major. The female:male ratios in classes were astonishing. Fighting off the complex of “being the only girl” or “one of the two” to raise hands or participate in hackathons, she continued to tread her way past it to enter the workforce where the story wasn’t very different. As one goes up the ladder, the ratio bends further towards one side.
Those experiences made her question the causes behind such disparity among female students picking up STEM majors to actually pursuing and staying in these fields as a career. This is the major reason Abhilasha want her voice to make a difference by reaching to a greater audience.
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